Random Observation

I was driving to the DZ and took note of something that comes up here in the way of example. Florida has recently rescinded it's mandatory helmet law for motorcycles. I presumed when it did so that there would be a smattering of folks chose to, mostly on back roads and the like. I was taking I-4 to the DZ and on both trips passed significant numbers of riders sans helmets. My quick count came up with 'bout 40% of the riders without head gear of any sort. If you don't count the 'skull cap' type of head gear, it was over 50%. Now, admittedly, we had the Biketoberfest in Daytona, but even then I was amazingly surprised.

Here we argue for years about a 0.01% increase in safety due to AAD's and these folks are effectively 'jumping without a reserve'. And they call us crazy.

Which is why when folks ask me if skydiving is 'safe' I'm frequently tempted to answer 'compared to what?'.

Kevin O'Connell

Before you buy.

but it should not be MANDATED... should be a choice....

I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought the USPA or DZO should mandate the use of an AAD in any fashion, but I just have yet to see a down side to having one on board.... if you can afford it I see NO reason not to have it. I hate to use the old phrase, but it is so true.. just like a seat belt, or air bag in the car.... I don't run into walls just so it can save me, but it's nice to have them on board just in case I screw up.. or someone else hits me!!!

No more than all your other answers.

You forgot to mention gear size. When you get your 102 sq. ft. reserve to match your 84 sq. ft. main (you want the reserve bigger for safety, of course), it's silly to double the size of the reserve container just to fit in that electronic monstrosity. Now that you can get the tiniest container the manufacturer offers (in the most fashionable colors, I might add), you would have to be a fool to intentinally add bulk that results in your gear being clunky, retro and terminally unhip.

What would the neighbors think?

Blue skies,

IMHO these type arguments must be totally confusing to a newbie. To those that have been around awhile, they have already made up their mind what is best for THEM. So..

.>How many bounces have you seen=too many.

Unless flames are licking my ass MY hard deck for emergencies is 1000' and I am using the silver handle. My main can do some funky things sometimes and this would not be the occasion to enjoy them.

If you find yourself in crowded airspace at 1000' you and your buddies should be doing two ways!

As I recall Mikes problem was not having two canopies out, it was cutting away the main which fouled the reserve. I am still not sure I am comfortable with the change in the SIM regarding this.

Any doofuses out there want to do an intentional with their good gear?

This is a good attitude for skydiving too!

I am waiting to hear 'em. Blues, JG

Care to put a number on it?

How many fires have you seen?

What would you deploy if you were bailing out at 1500'?

What about crowded airspace at 2000'?

Some people still routinely jump gear that is well suited to water jumps.

You don't seem to want to acknowledge them.

Blue Skies,

Marc

'Winsor is right. Skydiving can be reasonably safe as long as you don't try to convince yourself it's not dangerous as hell.'

- Skratch

The 'Looking for gear' thread was way more confusing, but some newbies got it then. Not sure why they wouldn't this time.

And in some cases they have made a decision based on insufficient data. People who 'have been around a while' regularly state that the firing altitude is 750ft, while SSK readily admits that the CYPRES may very well fire 300ft above that. For someone with a snivelling main those 300ft may very well cause the person to find him-/herself under two canopies, even though they never reached 750ft.

1 is too many, I think we agree on that.

See Marc's post.

What about altitudes between 1000ft and 2000ft? What if the plane reached 1500ft and then descended to below 1500ft while people were bailing out? It's not a 'one size fits all scenario' unless you'll always pull silver below 2000ft.

I don't think Marc was talking about 1000ft (neither was I btw).

You're right. Ofcourse you realize that this scenario can happen with a CYPRES fire as well?

well, that means you have to have another rig, which is a downside to AADs (which incidentally was what Marc was talking about).

Misfires (ask Cliff about the 'misfire' in England and what the results of the consequent tests to the unit were), deploying into an opening main, not arming itself until 1500ft, miscalculations due to the lack of burble on your back (ie. sudden upright position).

Espen ALF#1

Before you buy.

Marc we are not going to be on the same side of this.. and I'm not wasteing any more time on it with you.... you have enough jumps to make your own choices just don't taint it for newer students...

your story about the golden knight humming it down low enough to fire the Cypres not once but twice!!! proves nothing against an AAD... just demos the fact that your friend should rethink skydiving.. knight or not.. if he is burning through 800 feet +/- with no canopy not once, but twice (SINCE THE INSTALL OF THE AAD) I can't think of too many DZs that would want him jumping there.

as for the bouncing.. that a CYPRES would have atleast brought the person alive or dead down under a canopy... read parachutist.... there is about 2 a year... look em up. even if you don't see them in person...

as for Mis-fires..... I have heard of 1 that a student radio set off... don't know if this happened or not.. but that is the only one I have EVERY heard of. now other brands of AAD... sure that may happen.. that is why fewer and fewer are buying those brands!! if you have seen a dozen cypres fires... (from low pullers) and as you said forunately all of those folks landed safely... so it sounds like an expensive reminder to skydive smarter... get the seperation at the proper altitude.. and deploy at proper altitude....

as for do I have a cypres.. yes I do... love it... my cypres arms itself I beleive around 1500 ft...still doesn't do anything bad for me if it arms itself.. I'm over 1500 I'm still going straight for silver..... if I'm at 1000 and it is not armed... I'm still going for silver..... an AAD does nothing to change this... i'm not going to just jump out of the troubled plane at 1100 and wait for an AAD to fire... so I just am not seeing your point on that one????

you have made the choice not to jump with an AAD great... more power to you.. I have made the choice to jump with one.. do not taint the minds of newer students and tell them that they are not safe.... your 'POINTS' or so WHAT IF that you can't even count them as vaild.... CRW jumpers... good don't use them or turn them off if you choose...why I still don't see a reason why you want it off when you are deploying at 10,000 ft I don't think you are going to fire the reserve off then... and if there is a tangle down low.. sure maybe then would be a good time not to use.

as for the water jumps??? if you do nothing then water jumps... sure don't use one but how many people make daily water jumps???

Ask TY (Donna) about that statement of yours. She's obviously been paying more attention than you have.

Did you read what he wrote? He *did* have a canopy, or one that was in the process of opening, when he hit the CYPRES firing altitude. He landed with *two* canopies out both times iirc. That means the CYPRES could have killed him, it certainly didn't 'save'him, as he'd already taken care of that bit.

Oops, you're gonna get it for that statement. Go get him Tom B! :o)

In other words, you've never actually seen a bounce?

heard of.

There was one in England which Cliff admitted had some truth to it. Unfortunately, when they sent it to SSK to have the unit inspected, it

he'll tell you the story.

to you..

Ehh...again you didn't read what he wrote. Out of the 3 rigs he has, only *1* of them doesn't have a CYPRES in it. He chooses to do both.

Again, talk to TY (Donna).

Ofcourse, you have to make the choice not to use it *before* you exit the plane and deploy at 10,000ft. So, do you 'see a reason why you want it off when you are deploying at 10,000ft,' atleast when it comes to CRW?

That's not the point. Not being able to do a water jump with it is a 'downside' to the CYPRES. It doesn't make it unsafe, it's just a downside, as in you have to have another, non-CYPRES equipped, rig if you want to do water jumps (or take the CYPRES out before it)

Espen ALF#1

Before you buy.

The 'same side' of WHAT? You said you had never seen a 'downside' to an AAD. I pointed some out. I agree with you that there are *generally* more pros than cons to wearing a CYPRES, but there are still SOME downsides. Do you not see that?

Speaking of 'wasting' time, here I go:

How has my providing factual information 'tainted' anything for newer students in any way whatsoever? It hasn't. Quite the opposite, imo.

No, you're wrong. He did not ever go 'burning through 800 feet +/- with no canopy.' Nor did I ever state (or even suggest) that he did. He had already deployed his main (at ~ 1500' and gotten full inflation (at ~ 1000' as the CYPRES fired. He had already saved himself, just as he had 7000+ other times, when the CYPRES fired.

You'd be wrong about that too.

Oh, so you haven't seen one. Why did you lie to me earlier and say that you had?

Then you haven't been paying attention. There have been more than one.

Your so-called 'expensive reminder' has caused injuries to people who had already saved themselves. You are aware of that, right? AAD-induced injuries count as a 'downside,' do they not?

So Cricket, do you or do you not admit that there are SOME downsides to AADs?

Why do you 'love' it?

You don't sound so sure. Why don't you KNOW the answer?

But it HAS done 'bad' things to others. Those 'bad' things are known as 'downsides.'

So Cricket, do you or do you not admit that there are SOME downsides to AADs?

if it arms

If you had a fast-opening, reliable main canopy would you use your 'last chance' at 1500'? I wouldn't. For example, at 1500' I'd gladly bailout on my ZP 155 main as long as there was no CYPRES to worry about beating. Many jumpers feel the same way, like Wendy with her CRW rig. But if I add a CYPRES to that rig I'm going to have to reconsider my decision. I will no longer get out that low with that main, 'cause my CYPRES will be armed. The CYPRES will have caused me to change my procedures. Change can be difficult, especially after years and years of doing things a certain way, as many high-time jumpers have, to just change overnight and have to surpress years of training and conditioned responses